GreyDJ2

Anyone else going to vote?

Sorry that option does not exist in the real world. Option 2 has the cars next to tents.

Please vote, the decision will affect you too. Many of us just come for the day and personally I don't want to go to a show where only the cars are on the stand and most of the people are away at their tents, at least those with their families there. That is not what this club is about, is it?

It looks like the new management team have cottoned on to the fact that having some free (to the residents) onsite variety shows, like car clubs, is a really good differentiator for them compared to their, at least two, competitors in the area, one of similar size. Its win win for them as they make money on them as well. I suspect they got some pretty nasty feedback from their residents the year all the shows disappeared.

Interesting point, we could premium price the 'bad boys' non Cav corner

LMF is in MH and is a real company with fulltime employees (and family!) with access to contacts in the area. VBOA is a club made up of group of reps from multi clubs, it has no contacts in that area, is run by unpaid volunteers and is not set up to do anything really major like that. We also have no idea what the actual costs of MH were, that was down to LMF. Also there was a risk that if the showground as a whole was not a success the landowner may have decided to do something else with the land. At least this time there would be a long term contract with Billing, something we did not have before.

The beauty of Option 2, once the shock of the change has passed, is that the operational admin is ours so we can almost certainly be more flexible than it has been in the past.

You are not alone in regarding it as a social event. The cars are just an excuse

No problem, ask away. Basically the main difference to the 'old days' is in the administration prior to the event not the event itself. The changes to the event are due to the loss of some areas, but gain in other, leading to a need for a more accurate estimate on space needed. So that huge stand next to us will definitely shrink! I think its the large 'general' clubs like them, MIG, VxON etc that are suffering in all aspects. Targetted clubs like us, Calibra and endless Astra clubs less so.

Exactly the same as in past years at Billing, plus I hope in the same spot but probably a bit smaller if we do get it.

You have seen the VDC post above which was the basic information of the presentation given by VBOA to the club reps last Sunday. The following is my comments based on it which has also been circulated by VBOA. Over the past couple of years VBOA there has been a changing of the guard at VBOA. We now have a very active committee and some new highly active Web oriented clubs reaching out very successfully into Vauhall land, leading the organisation to consider new ways of moving forward. The Committee have negotiated with Billing who have offered us two options for our event. In summary, a retail type low VBOA input event (similar to but not the same as before) with Billing taking the money or a wholesale VBOA/clubs high input event (similar to the way Land Rover did it) with up front payment. Details of both are below. As this is probably one of the biggest organisational and financial risk decisions for the VBOA and voting on the options at the meeting was close, the VBOA reps decided that they should go back and consult their clubs. This is part of that process and I will need to have your views in the next week or so. First, what follows is based on the information presented at the VBOA meeting last Sunday and is subject to change. Second and this point is vital, whichever option is selected and for different reasons, the days of booking tickets within the last couple of months of the event have probably gone. OPTION 1 Billing run administration This is administratively similar to the 'old' way of running things. Booking through Billing with pricing much as before. Gate control and security by Billing. However that is where the similarity stops as operationally it is quite different in that there will be a vehicle only 'show' area, effectively the central block of the site with Mk2Cav old area top right. This will be divided up as now by VBOA into club areas where our cars will be during the day. This is about 21 acres. Camping will be in the surrounding blocks which have been divided up by Billing into pitches, with and without electricity. Unless left there overnight, cars will need to be moved into the show area each morning. The Autojumble will be in the same place as before and selling from a car boot on a stand will not be allowed. This could be a very different show experience to that which we have been used to. If this option is selected, VBOA will, as soon as possible, notify clubs which pitch numbers are closest to their area so that members can purchase those pitches. Bear in mind that there may be unrelated members of the public nearby or even potentially in the area so early booking is vital to maintain a club's contiguous area. Definitely advisable to book by the end of the year. OPTION 2 VBOA and Club run administration In exchange for an advance payment by VBOA, funded by its member clubs, Billing will rent the exclusive use of the whole of the central block plus surrounding camping areas which we can use the totality of as a car/camping area. This is about 27 acres as against our approx 29 acres at Market Harborough'. The rental period is Friday to Monday inclusive to VBOA for £35,000, paid in 4 instalments by the start of April. On top of that there will be some VBOA admin costs plus potential extra event costs like funding of gate control and some security so say £40,000 in round numbers. Then, dividing that total by the total number of spaces requested by the clubs the VBOA gets a price per space to allocate back to the clubs as per their request. That will then be the amount that the clubs will HAVE to pay VBOA on very tight advance schedule. As the first payment is due on signing the agreement, giving the clubs virtually no chance to collect their contributions, VBOA will lend out of its reserves that first payment recovering it from the clubs. This is a huge change as it imposes financial risks and a new workload on both VBOA and clubs. Once we have committed to the space we will be on the hook for the money and we will have to chip in with some volunteer support , both should be interesting! There is however the potential for cost savings since we will be effectively getting the wholesale price for our area and we will have flexibility as to how we recover that cost. My estimate is that the raw VBOA space cost to a club will be around £40/50 per car/tent for the 4 days. We will then need to add our costs and work out how to spread the total over campers and day visitors. Due to this, whilst there will be probably be a VBOA RRP, it is likely that clubs will have different price lists for their members. However, whichever way you look at it it should be cheaper than Option 1. We have to work on the basis of paying 50% by end December, 40% end January and 10% end March. As before you have to be a member to be on our stand and to gain our pricing. Conclusion So we have two polar opposite options, the first the same administratively as the old Billing but with a totally different layout and operation, the second with brand new administration and probable reduced costs for many but a layout and operation that we are all familiar with. Comments please. Regardless of option we also need to know: 1. What is the chance of you coming and camping and the number of nights? 2. What is the chance of you coming on a day trip? Thanks John

Interestingly it was the newer, perhaps more confident clubs that were heavily for the second. It certainly needs a rethink in club strategy. Frankly if I was voting on the basis of what I knew being that email I am not surprised. An answer to their questions and a more balanced view of the options is in the works at VBOA. I think Cavalier and Chevette already have it so it will be interesting to see how they circulate it.

Hi Darren, at least there was a couple of Cavs in your list Can see you are another Vauxhall nutter! Can understand the name issue, I had to change to a new one on our big upgrade as mine went down the plughole of life. Hence the 2 at the end. I suspect that VBOA are trying to regain control, I have heard nothing on the official reps email list since Sunday night. No doubt your rep is confused as well but I suspect someone is playing politics. There are VBOA voted on resolutions in place that have to be adhered to.

I see that is your first post here Darren so welcome to our site. Do you run a Mk2 Cavalier? You have obviously been to Billing, did you come on our stand there and you mention "our club" which one is that?

I am holding back at the moment to try to understand wtf is going on. At the meeting on Sunday the two alternatives I mentioned above were given to us and we voted to adopt the second but the vote was close so it was agreed to allow reps to consult with their clubs and not to put info on it on social media, just club sites One club, Cavalier and Chevette, has thrown a spanner into the works by circulating an attack on one of the options to an old email list (I didn't get it Andy did) and I don't know why they have done it. I am waiting for clarification from VBOA before I put more up here.

Thanks Chris. The Chinese whispers were correct but out of date. Billing approached us roughly a year ago. How things can change in a year! VBOA had an exchange on the lessons of this year with LMF in which LMF did not make any friends. Further progress seemed to have stalled. I suspect that LMF had noticed the following. Overnight pre-bookings were about 350 in 2017 then 250 in 2018. There is a view that it was only the fantastic weather that saved the show this year. At least one club bailed out this year and a couple more were going to do the same next year if we had stayed in MH. Factor in the risk of wet weather and 2019 could have been a disaster. LMF has done a sterling job but in the final analysis it is just a large field, almost in the middle of nowhere.

Thanks Paul. No haven't been recently but as I mentioned in answer to Chris's comments the site has changed with much more hard standing sites. All the car shows are now down the turn left after you get onsite. Straight ahead, where VxON and multi Astra sites were is now gone. Where we get our stand is in the lap of the gods but I will try to get us the same location but it is highly likely to be smaller.

VBOA approached Billing not the other way round. There is no clout to be applied, there are new owners and we and other car clubs are having to fit in with their new policy on car shows. This will be a multi year agreement, from memory 3 plus 2. There are two options one of which means that VBOA can run the show much as before but we have to advance purchase the whole site which has administrative and financial implications. The site available, which incidently is a smaller space than before, as all the area the 'other side' of the river has gone to other uses.

If there had been any chance that the vote would have been close I might have consulted members but £3500 was potentially (I emphasize potentially, not wanting to say that they wouldn't pay) at risk if LMF got any inkling of what was up. I wasn't going to get that pinned on me if it went tits up so I exercised my judgement. Anyone else want the role?

No, if the simple option is selected (same booking pricing etc as before but radically different show) then the show should still be OK without early booking but camping will be very messy. If the new admin option is selected (new advanced payment with the Clubs on the hook as per their pre-ordered spaces) as the majority of reps voted, I think we will get enough bookings for it to fly OK. This is a multi year contract, we never had one of those before! The current VBOA committee is quite different to the old one and there are some really active new clubs around.

There was a meeting in September at which considerable dissatisfaction at MH was expressed, not by me I might add as I would have gone back, it was decided to check out the alternatives for next year. A sub committee then checked out MH/another site in Suffolk/Billing. For reasons of commercial confidence, LMF hadn't at that stage paid us the money they owed VBOA for this year's event, we were told not to tell anyone. In confidence I told Andy. So this morning after discussion on the sites and particularly on LMF's response (it stunned me) which virtually treated us as if we had no alternative, we had two votes, where (I went with the majority) and then as Billing won, which option.

Many Clubs had very serious reservations about MH and going back could have fractured VBOA. Also LMF were very offhand as to what they would do to improve things. THe vote split 7 MH and 16 Billing with i abstention. Next years will be a bit more compact as significant development has taken place there. I have now started a thread for comments after I tell you more.

Billing have given us two options as to how we, as VBOA, organise the event. They can be summed up as a low input, similar (but not the same) with Billing taking the money as before or a VBOA organised event (similar to the way Land Rover did it) when we pay up front, do much more organising with potentially attractive financial benefits to both the VBOA and our Club. VBOA have made it clear that they want the of members of the affiliated clubs to have an input. I will need to have our decision at the start of November. This post will grow as I put what happened this morning into writing.

Decision made this morning, VBOA going back to Billing for the weekend of the 6/7 July. The format will be different and I will be asking for views on the options this week. There are significant organisational changes. I will outline the options later and have now put up a thread specifically for that. One thing is whatever happens you will have to decide and pay months in advance if you want to camp in our group. The option to do it a few weeks in advance is no more.

Sounds good to me, give them my phone number 07769 938946 and I'm John and I'm in Giffard Park. I have 4 handles that I am cleaning up that you could have as many of as you want either whole or just the ends, either way £2 each.